Present:
Mayor Lou Colosimo
Councilmembers: Roy A. Nikas, Betty P. Wheeler, Joe L. Piccolo, Steve Bringhurst, Stephen L. Denison
Vernon W. Jones (Adminis. Ass't.), Joanne Lessar
(City Recorder), Pat Larsen (Finance Director),
Others Present: Carbon County Commissioner Bill Krompel,
Carbon County Commissioner Neil Breinholt, Carbon County Commissioner Mike Milovich,
Carbon County Clerk/Auditor Bob Pero, Tom Alexander (Chamber of Commerce Board), John
Serfustini (Chamber of Commerce Board), Kevin Ashby (Sun Advocate)
1. CARBON COUNTY COMMISSION - Discussion On Price Office Building
The City Council and Carbon County Commissioners met to discuss usage of
the Price Office Building (Central School). Both entities have approved the concept for a
lease agreement for the Carbon County Chamber of Commerce, Carbon County Future, Carbon
County Recreation, Carbon County Travel Bureau and the Community Master Plan to occupy
space in the Price Office Building.
Pat Larsen presented information pertaining to the cost of utilities. The
electric bill for the past month with no one occupying the building was $392. The
custodians have been cleaning and painting the interior, so the majority of this bill is
for heat. The gas bill runs approximately $1,600/year. The building is 12,000 square feet.
The above entities would use approximately 2/3 to 3/4 of the bottom floor, including the
restroom areas. The utility usage was high when the Utah Department of Social Services
occupied the building, as there were approximately 200 employees. Pat estimated that
without any janitorial services provided by the City, the cost to maintain the building
and grounds is $5,000. This includes the elevator maintenance contract. Commissioner
Breinholt stated that real costs would be approximately $20,000. Carbon County Recreation
and the Travel Bureau are now expending about $4,000 at their present location. It would
take an additional $16,000 for them to move into the building. Councilmember Bringhurst
stated that in the proposed contract, the City agrees to pay the outside maintenance, so
$5,000 can be deducted.
Commissioner Breinholt stated that both the Council and Commissioners
agree that there is some enhancement of having these agencies located next to each other.
It could lead to doing things in a different way that could be valuable. He questioned if
the added costs would justify for simply having these agencies work next together?
However, there would be some hardships. As Michelle Lea would lose a full time secretary,
you would need a reception center and jointly appoint someone to answer the telephones,
which would add to the costs. It would be a good idea to have a joint administrator of
those agencies, someone to call meetings, get the agencies together, and brainstorm the
direction they are going and report to each other. Prepare a goals list, such as where
they are going on community development. He felt that if these agencies are simply moving
together and pay more, he has a hard time accepting this. However, if something new is
tried, such as bringing the communities together, he would go along with it. If the
communities do not get together, it will not work. This has either a chance to be real
costly, not very beneficial, or a chance to be one of the most powerful community
development tools we have. He is excited about the possibilities of doing something in a
new way. However, you have the overall expenses of running that agency, aside from
utilities. They need a budget, the need to know who will take care of the joint
secretaries and the things that need to be set up. They will need to know who will handle
the general remodeling costs, how will it be handled efficiently, how will you pay for a
Community Development Director, and who is the oversight board? If it is approached in
this regard, you have a chance to really do something.
Commissioner Breinholt discussed the possibility of moving Dennis Dooley
into the position of administrator of the above entities, and dedicate half of his time to
Carbon County Future. However, this may not work and you may need to hire someone else to
work full time. Commissioner Milovich agreed with Commissioner Breinholt. If you place the
four agencies together, you are just increasing the costs. He doesn't feel they would
accomplish anymore than they are doing now. However, if you put in the above element, and
he/she is working on things simultaneously for Helper City or Price City, etc., there is
something to possibly gain, such as grants or items such as the extension of the parkway.
Or as discussed previously, working on money through the Forest Service, Division of
Wildlife Resources, etc. Such a person coordinating efforts throughout the whole county
can make this thing roll. Before it can work, it will need the City's support. As
previously stated, Mayor Colosimo referred to a statement made that the County would
provide half the salary for a County planner. Commissioner Breinholt stated that was
correct, and suggested Dennis Dooley. Because of his background on the master plan, grant
writing and the community development side, he would be able to do this. He would have to
dedicate half of his time and we wouldn't have to come up with new cash. However, this may
not work, we may need a full time person.
Commissioner Milovich felt that this should all take place by June, as it
will take from now to June to plan it. It doesn't mean we can't move the people in, but
this whole project is not going to go unless we have something else to tie it all in. We
may need to look for a professional person as it is a big plan. It may turn out to be a
full time job. Mayor Colosimo asked John Serfustini what his ideas were? Mr. Serfustini
stated that they should be together, not so much for the agency's streamlining, but for
the citizens and tourists we serve. He doesn't see the effectiveness of the Travel Council
where it is now. Tourists can't find it and their travel questions are being answered by
the Chamber of Commerce and museum staff at the rate of 1,200 to 1,600 on a good weekend.
If you look at the effectiveness, it makes sense to move them to a central area. What a
better place than Main Street to have a possible travel center. Commissioner Krompel
stated that the restaurant and hotel owners have a real problem with the Travel Council
being located in its present spot. They are supportive of the concept to relocate in close
proximity to Main Street. Even though the other agencies are not in a central spot, they
are somewhere on Main Street, but the Travel Council is out of the way and should be
brought back on Main Street.
Mayor Colosimo feels that the Chamber can stay where they're at now if
they want to, but he feels the Travel Council and Chamber should be together. A lot of
people come into City Hall trying to find out where the Travel Council is. It is not as
critical for Carbon Recreation. Commissioner Breinholt suggested moving the Travel Council
in with the Chamber. The only reason he states that is be believes this can be worked out
together without opening a huge building and spending a lot of money. Commissioner Krompel
felt that this would be an improvement as far as the location goes.
Councilmember Piccolo asked why these agencies couldn't dedicate a couple
of thousand dollars in their budget to move to the new location? Commissioner Milovich
stated that both the Travel Council and Carbon Recreation have agreed to come up with some
money. The Chamber is the only one that is funded mostly by businesses, so the rates can
be changed to come up with an extra $2,000. The Chamber has a $135,000 budget, but $70,000
is the rodeo. If you get down to real figures, they have roughly a $70,000 or $80,000
budget.
Commissioner Krompel discussed the committed funds of the agencies. The
Travel Council has $2,400 to commit, Carbon Recreation has $2,000 and the Chamber of
Commerce has $2,000. This totals $6,000. Pat Larsen stated that all the City is asking for
is half of the utilities which would be between $6,000 and $7,000. The other agency would
be Carbon Future. Councilmember Nikas stated that he feels that the Chamber, Travel
Council and Carbon Future should be in the same building. If you look at the $6,000 in
hard cash and the original proposal, the City would pay 1/3, the County 1/3 and the
agencies 1/3. Realizing that the City and the County are contributing to those agencies,
this takes care of $18,000. This puts us in the ballpark of $15,000 to $20,000. Pat Larsen
stated that it will not cost that much, as the City stated they would maintain the
building. Councilmember Nikas reviewed the concept of a Community Development Director. It
was his understanding that the County was going to hire a director. Now he is hearing it
is an option. Someone was going to put together a master plan, and whether they came to
Price City for support, via a Carbon Future type of board and payments, etc., somebody was
going to be hired. It just so happens that now you have 3 agencies and maybe 4. He feels
this is another issue to be worked on together over the next couple months. You already
have a Carbon Future Board that seems to have good input from people who want to
participate. The director could work under this board instead of creating a whole new
board. If Dennis was able to work half of the time, perhaps Michelle Lea could take over
the other half. He respects the Chamber's desire to get involved because they are very
autonomous. Even though they get money from Price City and Carbon County, the Chamber has
their own board of directors they answer to. This board, plus the business people,
determine whether they are going to be in operation next year, and still they are willing
to go into a situation where they will accept some give and take with some governmental
entities helping direct what they do. He feels the three agencies need to move ahead with
organization and work out the Community Development person down the road. Commissioner
Breinholt stated its a lot easier to deal with when you talk in terms of $15,000 rather
than $30,000 and the $42,000 estimates. Councilmember Nikas stated if it doesn't work, all
the agencies will either have to increase funding or move them to another location less
expensive to maintain. There may be opportunities for the City to rent out the upstairs
level, which will help on these costs and other costs down the road. The City is unsure
what the future holds for the rest of the building. But these people need to get together.
John Serfustini stated that he feels these agencies would be the anchor
tenants that might attract other business that would fit in. The potential for renting the
rest of building might offset some of the costs with private industries who want to come
in. Councilmember Denison agreed with Councilmember Nikas. He would be willing to support
Price City giving another $6,000 towards those costs. He asked if the County was willing
to go another $6,000? Commissioner Breinholt indicated he has no problem with that.
However, there are other things to consider. Michelle Lea is not excited to move. She is
running full blast and has the use of Mindy Nickas, who is a full time secretary for the
Commissioners. If Michelle leaves, Mindy will remain in the County offices. Carbon County
Future will then run into more costs to place a secretary at the front desk when these
agencies get together. Will we also work together at that point to increase our funding to
handle those added costs? Michelle needs a secretary, and Carbon Future barely pays her
$1,000 in travel that she uses in 3 months. Kevin Ashby recommended taking a couple weeks
to decide who will go where and determine who has the extra secretarial use to meet the
public. Maybe a part time person may be needed to direct traffic as they come through the
door.
Councilmember Nikas stated that it is not as critical to combine Carbon
Recreation with these other agencies. He asked the Commissioners if the County has room to
move the Chamber and Travel Council? Commissioner Breinholt stated that he would move them
in a second if they had the room. Councilmember Nikas stated that if the idea is there to
move these agencies together, then we need to find the best place for them. Commissioner
Breinholt stated that he likes the location of the Central School, but he is concerned
over the hidden costs. What if a secretary needs to be hired to make this work out and a
contributing entity pulls out of Carbon Future? It will cost more money and we need to be
ready to support it. Kevin Ashby felt it might be possible to shuffle the employees we now
have to cover this. Commissioner Milovich questioned if it would be a problem for these
agencies to use their employees to assist Carbon Future. Commissioner Krompel suggested
until this is worked out, that Michelle stay where she is. She would only have to walk
across the street for her weekly meeting. Commissioner Breinholt agreed, but he asked if
having the Chamber and Travel Council together is worth $12,000, or is there a better way
to put the Chamber and the Travel Council together? He admits Carbon Recreation is not a
player, although they are very active and there is a bunch of stuff they can help with.
Commissioner Krompel felt the downtown area might benefit in terms of traffic by having
Carbon Recreation located in the same place.
Thomas Alexander asked what the total utilities would come to? Pat Larsen
estimated between $6,000 and $7,000. With those figures, Mr. Alexander stated that it will
not cost any additional money to put these agencies together at this point. He feels it
was decided a long time ago there was some value in having them together. He doesn't think
anybody disagrees that a Community Development Director is a big plus to the community and
needs to happen. If eventually this person is hired, a secretary will always be needed.
Councilmember Piccolo stated that a Community Director is a separate
issue. He feels it is time to put these three agencies together. He feels when they get
together, they will find they have some extra resources when they corroborate together. It
might be beneficial for Michelle to be included. It sounds like she doesn't want to come
because she is afraid she will lose something that is not there for her. If she doesn't
want to be in there now, she may when she finds out how well they all work together. When
all these agencies (Recreation, Chamber, Travel Council) are working well together, it
will be easier to see the overview of any hidden expenses, and then calculate what will be
necessary to get a planner in place. When Helper, Wellington, East Carbon and Scofield see
that the concept is there and will be beneficial to them as well, it will be a good
opportunity to get them involved in their share as well. Commissioner Krompel stated that
the BLM and the Forest Service directors have indicated that they may be willing to
provide some staffing services. These three agencies can move into the building for
approximately $8,000, and they already have $6,000 to put towards it. Kevin Ashby stated
that if Price City and Carbon County could each put in $9,000 each, it might be possible
to hire a secretary or receptionist and get all the agencies there. Carbon County Future
is a part of all this.
Councilmember Nikas recommended that all the players (Helper, Wellington, CEU, etc.)
besides Price and Carbon County divide the costs. Commissioner Breinholt stated that if
you leave Carbon County Future out of it and these three agencies can move in for $8,000,
there is no reason that they can't pack up and move in tomorrow.
Thomas Alexander felt that Carbon Future should be included with the other
agencies. They are all doing the same thing. He doesn't think people realize how much
Carbon Future does. Michelle should have her own secretary because of her work load. This
is a good opportunity to ask the board for funding for a secretary and also, once they are
together, the Chamber could talk to their business people to contact their political
constituents to help fund this. Mayor Colosimo stated that again this falls upon Price
City. If they provide the maintenance, the upkeep of the building, janitorial service, and
if they have to fund a secretary, its costing a lot of money. He doesn't think its fair to
Price City. Commissioner Breinholt stated that it may be necessary to enter into a
fairness discussion. There are a lot of parts as to what fairness is. He is not sure it is
fair from the County's point of view for the type of monies they are putting into these
agencies either. However, if we separate these issues and let each one of them stand on
their own, and we decide we are close enough to move the 3 agencies, we will all have to
vote whether we're going to give our extra portion to hire a secretary. Further, if we
eventually decide on a Community Director, we will have to fund it too.
Councilmember Nikas commented that there are some times that the County
should simply pay for things without coming to the cities and asking for participation.
All the cities pay property taxes into this and maybe its easier to take from the County
as a whole. Commissioner Breinholt stated that if its important enough to bring up and you
believe you have some insight from your viewpoint of that, then its important to lay
everything on the table and see if there is a fairness, an inequity, or reasons why the
County would or wound not ask for some help. Councilmember Nikas felt that in situations
like Carbon County Future, if thats already been predetermined and voted on, that if it is
the fairest way to petition out the money and the request for money, then lets proceed in
that direction. But to come back and have the two entities continue to arbitrarily give
one half or one third, etc., of every project that comes along that will benefit the
community as a whole, he doesn't know if its right. Commissioner Breinholt stated that
Carbon County did not come up with the one third proposal. This came from the Travel
Council and the agencies who want to move into the building. He thought it was a real
mistake not to include the other players in community development. He thinks its an
excellent time to bring everybody else on board. Everything he has said, including the
governing board, included the other players. There are other issues that need to be
cleared up, but it is not possible to do it tonight. Councilmember Nikas agreed that Price
City and Carbon County should talk philosophically about which should be County and which
should be County with assistance from the cities at another time. His issue is when the
County does something, the tax payers are paying through the cities, and at some point in
time, maybe it is the responsibility of the County to pay for those programs and not ask
the cities to participate.
Councilmember Bringhurst stated that what if everybody agreed that it is a
good idea to get the 3 agencies moved in and we could talk about Michelle later. And then
what if it was decided that Community Development was important and we were going to start
those steps in place in terms of what can the City and County do to get everyone involved,
either go through Carbon County Future Board or form a new board. Everybody will play
their part to get everyone else on board. Take some time to decide if we want to get
Michelle over there, and if we do, how we are going to fund it and who is going to ask who
to help fund it. Price City and Carbon County have already committed to keep Community
Development in mind and move in that direction. It would be good to get Michelle over
there so we are committed in that direction. These are the what ifs. We are going to get
these three agencies over there and we are going to work towards getting Michelle over
there. Price City and Carbon County will commit their portion of funding, and commit to
pull the rest of the people together. If you want the City to be a viable part in pulling
the rest of those players together, we would be willing to do that. We agree that we want
this Community Development position, maybe its Dennis part time to start with or maybe its
somebody full time. We've all committed that this is the direction we're going and will
fund it when the time comes.
Commissioner Breinholt recommended zeroing in on the particulars agreed
upon. How much money will utility costs be to move the three agencies, not counting
Michelle, into the Central School building? Price City, Carbon County, and the three
agencies (Chamber of Commerce, Travel Council, Carbon Recreation) committed 1/3 each,
which is estimated at $8,000. Councilmember Nikas stated that outside of those utility
costs, Price City has offered to take care of the exterior maintenance and janitorial
service. Councilmember Bringhurst stated that if Michelle decides to move over, perhaps
the other agencies can discuss amongst themselves between now and 30 or 60 days, if they
agree that they can give part of their secretaries to help Michelle have a secretary in
this location because it is essential to get her over there. He recommended that as you
put the agencies together, make sure we are all headed in the direction of community
development, and can get there in the least amount of time. Lets not lose sight of that,
if in fact, thats the direction we all want to go. Councilmember Wheeler stated that we
all feel that way about getting the other part in here. Lets start down at the bottom and
build up to that, because this is where we are, we are all the future of Carbon County.
Commissioner Breinholt recommended that the three agencies put up their
$6,000 and Price City and Carbon County split the auxiliary costs after that and monitor
it for awhile and see if the $6,000 ends up to be a 1/3 or whatever. Take the $6,000,
split the difference on the hard costs on utilities up front, get them in the building,
take this first step and start looking at the other possibilities. Councilmember Nikas
stated if the utilities end up costing less, he would not be opposed to offsetting some of
that $6,000 back to those agencies. Councilmember Krompel stated that Price City and
Carbon County are the major players because of their size and resources, so we are always
going to be making most of the ultimate decisions on what direction we take.
Carbon County and Price City agreed to the above recommendations and the
splitting of costs, and that an interlocal agreement be prepared. It was recommended that
these two entities meet once a quarter to discuss various issues. The next meeting is
scheduled for Wednesday, April 30th, at 6:00 p.m.
Meeting adjourned at 7:50 p.m.